I’m really tired of dancing around this and trying to be nice.
I’ve seen your really cute church ads. I’ve heard you talk about how, in your whacky world of crazy, letting a gay couple marry would somehow infringe on your religious rights. How you’re doing it for the protection of ‘our children’ and how it’s really not about tolerance of ‘lifestyles’ but how it’s about you being ‘forced’ to accept same-sex unions.
Can I just say…YOU EVIL BASTARDS.
And I mean that with all the love in my heart.
This isn’t about religion or what you believe. This is about civil rights and your bigotry. Yes, your religion has made you a bigot. An evil, hating, horrible, bigot.
If you would like your children to not hear about anyone different from them, feel free to keep them the hell out of public schools and for that matter, public places. Because we here in the ‘public’ are not all like you and we allow our citizens, ALL OUR CITIZENS, the same rights.
I’m seeing YES ON PROP 8 signs in my neighborhood and I have half a mind to knock on their doors and ask them why they think bigotry is ok. Why they think denying rights to others is ok. Why they think their family is better than any other family. Why, exactly, they have SUCH EVIL IN THEIR HEARTS. And where the FUCK they get off with the smiling happy stick-figure family representing them on those fucked up signs.
If your religion does not allow you to marry someone of the same sex..then don’t. If your religion allows for bigotry, perhaps you should find another religion.
Seriously. I am disgusted. Absolutely disgusted by supporters of Prop 8.
I can see absolutely NO justification for this legislation other than you implementing your evil across California.
As my husband just said, Orthodox Jews can’t work on Saturdays…do we come up with legislation making it illegal for everyone to work on Saturdays?
It’s the same thing. You get that, right?
No. You don’t. Because you’re evil, and you some how think gays being allowed the same rights as you is bad.
Perhaps you need to live somewhere that doesn’t allow rights to all it’s citizens. Somewhere where everyone is just like you and thinks like you and lives like you.
Now, many of you will be very quick to point out the Obama-Biden take on gay marriage. And let us BE CLEAR about that record, shall we? I am not naive enough to think every candidate is perfect, and I am disappointed my candidates won’t go that extra mile for gay marriage. But let’s face it…it’s your fault.
You make up a large electorate and they can’t alienate half the country. I get that. They want to make sure all voices are heard in American, even the evil ones.
It’s WRONG, but I get it. I’m also proud that they’ve supported equal rights for the LGBT community and will not support any constitutional amendments defining marriage.
Now you, on the other hand…what’s your excuse? Your religion says gay is wrong? Your religion also says you should stone wicked kids, but…I digress.
Get your bigotry out of my state. Get it out of my schools and get it out of my country. ALL are welcome, and that means you too, if you can stay and play nice.
Forced toleration can suck sometimes. But hey, I have to tolerate you, so it works both ways.
Oh, and by the way…years from now, when this is looked back upon like the civil rights movement in the 60’s, and people ask you what side you were on…have fun explaining that one.
*updated 10/20/2008
I keep re-reading and re-reading this post because it’s gnawing at me and won’t seem to let me go. Yes, I am angry. I am very angry over this issue, and writing this was cathartic and let me push all my anger onto a blank page. But as the debate and venom continues over same-sex marriage, I’m worried my hitting ‘publish’ did more harm than good. That I just threw out something into the world that spewed just as much hate as the what I perceive to be coming at me from those who support this measure. To be clear, and as I said in comments, I do not believe all religions and all faiths are evil or bigoted. I found more love in some Christian friends and family than can be expressed. I’ve also seen entire Jewish communities condemn this measure and other faiths rally against discrimination and bigotry. But perhaps, what I keep getting as I re-read this…is a microcosm of what’s gotten so out of hand on this issue and in this entire election: we’re all just name calling and screaming at each other. I regret adding to that, I truly do…but it’s so hard when you feel pushed there. Pushed by whatever entities are at work. So I’m letting this post stand because it’s a fair representation of how I felt when I wrote it, it does-if you can get past the venom-convey all the things I find wrong about this measure and why it should be defeated. But it occurs to me that this entire fight…this battle…is over love. Who can love. How they can love. Why they can or can not love. And the last thing it needs is more hate thrown in. So before you add to the hundreds of comments here or continue to scream and yell, please take that into consideration. Love. -ekv
I’m going to just shake my head and the dust off my feet on this one. You guys are so far out of touch that it’s unlikely you’ll ever find your way back.
It’s clear that the public schools that Anthony has been attending have successfully instilled in him the illusion that ANYTHING goes provided “no one gets hurt.”
That’s the biggest lie humanism has sold us and you guys have swallowed it whole.
Well, good luck with the twisted little society you’ll build for yourselves using that as your foundational philosophy. I don’t want any part of that fantasy land.
You say “humanism” like it’s a dirty word there Gleno. How sad.
I’m off to feed my unicorns now.
I’ve been having similar discussions on my blog post about why Christians should vote for Barack Obama. The reasons given against my logic always concern my lack of righteousness for not hating the gays and pro-choice stance while pointing out that John McCain could be called a murderer for supporting the Iraq war.
Suffice it to say, it gets old.
My 14-year old daughter was appalled that this proposition was even on the ballot. She was even more appalled to discover that the petition in our church lobby that I had a fit about last year was the petition to put this on the ballot. It deeply shook her faith and understanding of what she believed Christianity to be about, and it’s taken me reassuring her over and over again that her mother has nothing against anyone getting married. Divorce is far more ugly.
You will never convince the true believers that gay-hating and discrimination is wrong. When Lawrence King was murdered in cold blood in his middle school homeroom class last year for daring to even appear gay (while he struggled with his sexuality and had even been rejected to some extent by his family…), there was an uproar between the righteous who believe that being gay is a bigger sin than being a murderer (forget that King was a CHILD) and those of us who saw this crime for what it was – sheer, unadulterated hate.
The hypocrisy in the arguments made against gay marriage is that allowing gays to marry somehow dilutes the notion of “family”, that being gay is some sort of horrible sin that’s worse, far worse than murder, or beating the spouse and kids, or embezzling or just beng puerile.
My bottom line is that for every commercial I see hating on gays and lying to the public about what gay marriage is about (Yes, the righteous also lie with impunity), the No on 8 folks get another donation. Even if it’s my last dollar. And that will continue until election day.
Did I mention that I have a No on 8 sticker on my handbag? The one I’m taking with me to church tomorrow? Because someone has to speak for the Christian who takes the command to love others (without distinction) seriously. I would love for someone to show me where Jesus made that distinction between gays and straight folks when he commanded us to “love one another”.
Legislating love loses. We all lose. This is nothing more than a hate campaign dressed as a state proposition. Or lipstick on a pig, so to speak.
Rock on Karoli.
True, but this also opens a new can of worms! Are gays of today the slaves of yesteryear? I mean honestly all they want is the Legal blanket of rights that other married people have. It isn’t like they want there own water fountain to drink from? Nobody tell Gleno this, but ::whispers:: gay people have been having weddings for years! SHOCK! In my state when two people (various colors and sexes) live together for 10 years are more they are married (legally!) So WTF? What is the big deal? 10 years from now you would have most of the rights anyway, a few more won’t hurt. I have all the rights I want, I’m gay, I don’t want to get married, and am happy with my life the way it is, I don’t want to extra crap that comes with marriage, but I would still NEVER try to hinder the ability of anyone to make there life better. If a married sam-sex couple living next to you would make you sell your house and run for the hills, then you have got better things to do than post to a blog! You need to pray to Jesus to take these feelings of hate and anger from your heart, you need to ask him to give you the gift of understanding, and accept those who don’t see eye to eye. Then you might ask him to bless you with a hobby, so that you will have better things to do then to force your extreme right wing views on other people. and the crowd said….
TSC, we knew what you meant. And history will show this as just one more chapter.
“…and then you might ask him to bless you with a hobby…”
officially funnier than SNL right now
@ Gleno
I’m sorry to tell you, but that “twisted little society” is the United States, as envisioned by the Founding Fathers. Anything is SUPPOSED to be permissible, so long as it doesn’t harm others without their consent.
“Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add ‘within the limits of the law’ because law is often but the tyrant’s will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.”
– Thomas Jefferson
Right on, Erin! I feel the same way you do. My community is plastered with NO on 8 signs so much so that when I see the lone Yes on 8 sign spring up I want to yell, “YOU’RE MEAN!”
The last people I want deciding whether two women or two men can marry are the frickin MORMONS who are pumping millions of dollars into our state to defeat this measure.
I am raising my children to believe that love is love and equality is for all no matter what. Their most beloved example of that is the Reverend of our church who is openly bi. She is often accompanied at church by her wife and their baby. Even though they married years ago, they got married again recently so it could be recognized by the state. I find that touching and sad at the same time.
And Gleno, what’s wrong with 3 or 10 people marrying each other? Why is it any of your business? Enough is enough–let gays marry legally and enjoy the same benefits as hetero couples do. I promise it will not affect your life one bit and if it does, you should probably take up a hobby.
@TSC
*swoons* You quoted Thomas Jefferson. You win an internets.
@ Queen
Officially funnier than the vatican denouncing american christian extremists.
Karoli You are so right! Gleno’s assumption that “anything goes” is one sided and his own. When we get back to basics, you are to love everyone. If for nothing else, for the simple fact that it makes you a bitter person for being so discontent. Public schools taught me that people are mean, they spend there whole school lives trying to be popular , and they seldom care what to cost or effect is to get it. I adjusted my beliefs to treat everyone the same, no one better or worse, and in a short time in a new school made many friends. I did this with understanding and seeking common ground. If one person could do it so can two, three, or a country. The problem is dead roots, we have a foundation of bitterness, greed, and hate that is cutting off the nutrition that our Country needs to work correctly, people are pissing and moaning over small issues like this, when we have much larger problems. Perhaps there is still a chance to direct some of your negative energy in a positive way. First you have got to stop thinking your always right, and start thinking……
@ BJ, even if your percentages are right, which I don’t believe they are, here is why the argument of comparing homosexuality to pedophilia for the basis of the law doesn’t work, children are not considered equals under our laws, it’s that simple, they cannot legally make the decision to partake in sexual acts, nor can they legally sign contracts. People that are attracted to the same sex can. Marriage, even before it was anything religious, was a contract.
Also, I have a disorder that less than 10% of the population has, does that mean I should be denied my rights to do things. (not saying homosexuality is a disorder just comparing the prevalence)
My mother, someone who in the last few years converted to Catholicism, and I, not so much with the Catholic, have the same question, how can someone feel the right to dictate who someone is allowed to fall in love with?
Sorry I didn’t write this earlier, I just couldn’t believe someone still compares the two.
Yes, Queen, I like the term. In my view, Christian marriage was instituted by God. (Uh oh, I used the G word) I cherish it and want to keep it what it is. Marriage IS between a man and a woman no matter what someone tries to call it. My Corolla is not a Maserati even if I call it one.
It seems the same as if someone said they were an American, but laughed with glee when the WTC came crashing down. Huh?
I truly think at the root of this is the desire to liberalize the term (marriage) due to a deep resentment of having something that can never be. Get your own term…call it homo-union or something…why wouldn’t that be enough?
BTW, Karoli, just because I support Prop 8 does not mean I want to discriminate against or hate on homosexuals. Real Christians don’t and shouldn’t do that because we’re all equal in the eyes of God. All sin (another PC unfriendly term) ends in death, mine, yours, and everyone’s.
Anyway, gotta turn in, but my last word: Find the REAL Jesus and you’ll find the answers to all these questions we’ve been pondering tonight.
There’s a lot of people saying the “definition” of marriage is a man and a woman, where is this defined? Is it in Webster? Or Merriman? Do we now deifine our civil rights based on a dictionary definition? How about the arguement of “tradition”? I have two quotes that I live my life by, one of them is “If you always do what you always did, you will always get what you always got.” and what we’ve got right now is pretty fucked up.
I agree with Sully one hundred percent. The churches (and mosques and temples) need to be taken OUT of the marriage equation. A preacher (or priest or rabbi or whatever) can pronounce you man and wife or wife and wife or man and man but it doesn’t mean squat diddly without the liscense from the state. (liscence is a word I never spell right, get over it)
Anthony Upchurch…
Ah, you had me going there. Almost had a complete bait/switch, but then..well, there it was. that snarky, nasty zinger.
Peace.
“If you always do what you always did, you will always get what you always got.” and what we’ve got right now is pretty fucked up.
That is really all that needed to be said. You go girl! LOL
John, your arguments are reasonable, but I’m at a loss to understand why you want to turn over something to the state that reasonably belongs to the church.
You should be careful what you all ask for, because when you hand control over to the state, it is also removed from the authority of the church.
It would have been far better to leave this one off the ballot, and as a church decide what you will and will not define as marriage. By turning it over to the state, the church loses all authority over its own right to self-define the institutions it will support and will not.
John, really, i don’t mind religeous people. In fact, my mom is hardcore catholic and my brother is hardcore christian and i love them both very dearly. God is fine, so is allah, so is buddah and… i think you see where i’m going with this.
My point is, if you want to object to prop8, dont use a religeous backdrop, especially a biblical one because it is hypocritical unless you never shave, stone children who are disobedient more than 3 times, do not work on the sabbath, and follow all the rules of being kosher along with many more rules. did you know that the bible says any house that has the “green taint” (aka mold) means that the house is sinful and must be torn down? It is written in the book of deuteronomy btw.
If you can find ANY other reason to oppose it I will listen with an open mind, but i have yet to hear a non-religeous reason presented by anyone.
Consenting adults being a prerequisite for marriage, so we can bypass all the redundant animal and pedophilia claims, as they do not fall into the criteria.
Sorry, one more post. My WTC reference was meant to illustrate someone’s hidden desire to see destruction. In this case, I think many want to see a word, with its specific institutional result, destroyed.
Also, this world is not screwed up due to the ideal definition of marriage. In fact, it’s screwed up when our commitments are broken. Therefore, divorce (whether hetero- OR homosexual) is WORSE than destroying the word “marriage”.
Luinserke ..
I love it
Divorce is bad. I agree with that.
But i’m not going to say people can’t have it.
John,
Yep, which is another reason to loathe both the principle and the spirit behind this stupid initiative.
See John, that’s where you are wrong. I’m a girl. As a girl I was told my entire life of this wonderful, romantic institution called ‘Marriage’ wherein one day I would pledge my eternal devotion and love to another human being.
Its a dream.
Everyone should be able to achieve that dream if they want it.
Now, if you want to get into why that entire idea is stupid, I’m all for it and I will totally agree (patriarchy, what not…lol) but let’s be clear, marriage -right or wrong- is part of that American dream.
You’re denying it to an entire population because you seem to think it’s only meant for ‘certain’ Americans and only allowed to those who you deem worthy, is discrimination.
And that’s just the romanticized version.
@ Gleno
is it going to hurt you if gay couples get married? I know it isn’t going to hurt me. I don’t care who dates or marries who as long as if they are fooling around I don’t have to see it, and that includes anyone and everyone. My cousin is gay, more queer than a 3 dollar bill, and if he decided to get married, the only inconvenience it would give me is finding a dress and buying a gift, the same inconvenience I had last week when my heterosexual uncle got married. If you don’t want a gay marriage, there is a fairly simple answer, don’t go get one. Marriage has changed over the years, the first marriage license was a slave contract with slave scratched out and wife written in. Why can’t it change now?
Sarah, very true. In fact, the first marriage contract/union predates christianity. The first formal rules, as you have most accurately described as a slave contract, was written by a man named Hammurabi in the middle east. (mesopotamia area)
So, that actually means that marriage isn’t even a christian institution… doesn’t it?
wow, as a Canadian reading this i can’t believe that it has come to this level and that your government actually let a bill like this go through for voting on!! how embarrassing for you guys if this does go through and what shame it will be on your government. What you wrote is perfect and exactly what should be said to the people that want to stop equal rights. A lot of religious people are bigots and full of hate and evil, brain washed by their “cult”. Californians must stand up once and for all against the bigotry of religion and vote for equality for every human being cause in the end, we’re all the same on the inside and we’re all human beings. I know that this will not pass through, my faith is in the human spirit and that you guys will show your country that California is a state moving forward for civil rights and not backwards to the dark ages, this will have a HUGE impact on your image and if you take away civil rights from human beings that just want to love each other like everyone else, i can guarantee that things in California will go from bad to worse for you guys…
AMEN!
I’m still confused why anyone would want their government to sanction their unions (hetero or not). All the government needs to define for couples, ALL couples, is a legal union. If you want a church to acknowledge that union as something else, that’s up to your church of choice.
This is about equal rights under the law, not in your flippin’ church. No one is asking your church to acknowledge any unions. They never have. That’s up to you and your religious doctrine.
Please keep the state out of my church and the church out of my state by voting No on 8.
Rob–the trouble with your point of view, it seems, is that anyone who advocates equal rights for EVERYONE–not just Christians–is now subject to being outed as being “liberal” and anti-American.
Odd that so many of our leaders commit enormous resources to spreading “democracy” in the Middle East, yet are similarly anxious to establishing a theocracy here at home. To quote Sinclair Lewis, “When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross.”
no, by my logic pairings that are non reproductive as a result of natural sexual biology should not receive compensation intended for reproductive pairings. You’re better than that. Think about it.
Quite simply, you are going to find fault in anything anyone says that opposes you, and probably call us intolerant and closed-minded as you closed-mindedly dismiss out of hand any claim we make. That’s fair, but the piss and vinegar you spout it with is no better than what you accuse others of. Let’s face it. Your opinion is no more valid than theirs but your hatred and venom are far more interesting since it is exactly what you accuse them of. Why? Because they disagree with you on an OPINION.
@ TSC – The state should not be in the business of marriage. Get a contact or a will if there are legal needs. Your amissing the point. Stop looking to government to run your lives!
I’m marrying Luinserke.
If I still lived in California, I’d be out knocking on doors to make sure this vile proposition doesn’t pass.
I’m a heterosexual woman who has a child whose biological father is bisexual, and a citizen of Spain. He has been the faithful partner to his beloved spouse, another man and a U.S. citizen, for the last fourteen years. I could legally marry either one of them, if we wanted to lie for some purpose of tax or immigration green card fraud, but it would be a lie and a violation of both the spirit and the laws regarding marriage that exist today. Fortunately, the government of Spain signed a law making same-sex marriages (not civil unions, marriages) legal and now they are married before the eyes of the law in the European Union. Last I checked, Spain had not fallen into the ocean and marriage between heterosexuals in Spain is doing just fine. In fact, many couples in Spain choose NOT to marry because they don’t like the church AND their families are still entitled to health care benefits just by virtue of having a child together. Think about it. Isn’t that civilized?
All of our three extended families (including very conservative Catholics and Lutherans) love and support our family, in which the two people who love each other are married, and the three people who are parents to our well-loved child are friends and partners in the enterprise of creating a loving family. Why is this bad? why does this hurt anyone? It’s simply a lie that gay people can’t have kids! They have them all the time, in their heterosexual marriages as well as through adoption, artificial insemination, and all other kinds of ways. The question is how to best protect the interests of those children, and making sure that the parents enjoy the same rights and privileges as other parents is one step in that direction.
I can’t wait for the day when the law in this country makes it possible for me and ALL the members of my family to enjoy the legal rights and the social recognition that go with the values of love, solidarity and responsible parenting that we enact in our daily lives.
So, yes, bigots, you are trying to hurt me and my family, so we are entitled to tell you that Prop 8 and all the hateful rhetoric around it are vile and contemptible.
If I were in California, I would support the proposition, although not for religious reasons at all. Marriage is a private function, and it should be handled entirely privately. The state does not have the legitimate moral authority to decide whether a marriage is valid or not, neither for heterosexual nor homosexual marriages. Voting no means acknowledging and approving further aggressive state intrusion into the realm of marriage. Some will argue that because the state currently oversees heterosexual marriages, then it should also oversee homosexual marriages. However, this argument only encourages further aggression and intrusion by the state; it is immoral to promote the *initiation* of aggression for any reason. The real solution is to end state oversight of all marriage, including heterosexual marriage.
How dare you call me evil for opposing violent state intervention into this private matter. You are the one who is encouraging the state to aggressively intrude into even more aspects of our private life. They shouldn’t even have authority over heterosexual marriage, yet you want to give them authority over homosexual marriage as well. You are advocating aggression and violence at the hands of the state. Please stop your violence-mongering.
@ Jacob Diamond:
Okay. But what happens if you get hit by a car before you get the will, but after you are married? Your spouse gets screwed. And no contract will allow one gay partner to visit the other, even if he is dying, in a hospital as family. There were some cases up here before same-sex marriage was recognized where one parter had to die alone because the other wasn’t allowed to see them.
You need the state to recognize marriage, because married couples get certain rights and privileges that single people do not. You can argue that that isn’t fair, but so long as those benefits exist, the state needs to define for itself who qualifies. And that means the state gets to define what marriage is, legally.
Bryan your argument only works if marriage were not already a state sanctified union. In which case, horray…
but the prop, as it stands, now only serves to DENY the gay community the same rights afforded to the straight community. That’s discrimination. And that’s evil.
Queen: No, my argument applies in every case.
You’re suggesting that two wrongs (state monopoly over both heterosexual and homosexual marriages) would make a right. This is patently false. The immorality of state-endorsed heterosexual marriage does not justify further immorality. Following your line of reasoning, one could justify state interventionism into almost everything. For example, one could say, “Well, the government shouldn’t invade poor, weakly defended countries that pose no threat to us, but since it already has done so in the Phillipines, Hawaii, Vietnam, Somalia, Serbia, Kosovo, and Iraq, it also should invade Zimbabwe,” or “Well, the government shouldn’t tax and inflate the currency to fund pet projects, but since it already does so, it should allot more government funds for cancer research.”
You say that you want to secure for homosexual couples those same “rights” that heterosexual couples have, but this is illegitimate. No heterosexual couple has the “right” to a state-endorsed marriage because state endorsement of marriage is itself illegitimate. It exists not because it is legitimate or moral but because of the ruthless iron fist of the state.
Regardless how you try to disguise it, you’re advocating additional illegitimate state aggression into our private lives. Much like many lobbyists, Iraq War supporters, advocates of the $700 billion bailout, corporatists, and certain types of environmentalists, you advocate the initiation of state violence when it will promote a cause you believe in. However, I’m predicting that if someone else were to advocate state violence for their own causes and pet projects that you happen to dislike, you would attack them, call them and their proposals “evil,” and so on. This is hypocrisy. The initiation of violence is simply evil, whether it is at the hands of the state, the mafia, common burglars, or others.
Perhaps it would be better if you advocated liberation from government authoritarianism rather than slavery to its every whim.
I’m in Texas, and this type of bigotry is all-too common here, but this is a symptom of a much larger problem and I hope we can all come together and do something about it before it’s too late. The is about the erosion and nullification of the Constitution to allow for the total control of every aspect of your life (can you say Real ID?) We’ve experienced a lot of conditioning in the last few decades but it has really ramped up under the dictatorship of King George (“I am the decider”). To paraphrase… “First they came for the smokers, and I didn’t speak up because I don’t smoke. Then they came for the gays, and I didn’t speak up because I’m not gay. Then they came for the gun owners, and I didn’t speak up because I don’t own a gun. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak up.”
We’re all in this together. If we come together as a nation of VOTERS and INSIST that our elected officials follow the Constitution, we can start to reverse this trend. Think about it, please?
I am neither lobbying for or against ‘state monopoly over both heterosexual and homosexual marriages’- it exists and I am working within it’s confines.
It exists and therefor must be applied to all Americans, not just some.
Now, I’m happy to lobby too for liberation from government authoritarianism however that’s not practical or a viable option currently. What I can do is make sure all Americans are afford the same rights as others.
Two examples of why gay “marriage” is necessary:
1) 7 years ago I was in a life threatening accident. I was in a coma for a week. My parents informed the hospital that my partner of 3.5 years was not allowed to see me. He was to have no contact, nor knowledge of my condition. Simply because we were a gay couple and they disagreed with our “choice”*
Until the presiding doctor saw the order, it was enforced and my partner had no knowledge of my condition for at least 2 days. fortunatly for my partner and I, the presiding doctor immediately over rode my parents order and my partner was allowed to see me. I still remember waking up and seeing him there… It made dealing with the pain so much easier.
My partner and I split ways 2 years later… amazingly for the same reason many straight marriages end (infidelity).
2) 3 months ago I had another partner of three years who committed suicide. We had been discussing marraige and had no issues with fidelity. I was told by the police of his suicide 3 hours after it happend. It was my responsibility to call his family and friends. Yet… I couldn’t do the basic legal stuff to retrieve his property or authorize the county on how to deal with the remains. It took three weeks for his family to come out here to deal with things. I was left with nothing but what they didn’t want (his old cloths, an old car that didn’t work, and lots of paperwork and garbage). To top all of it off at the funeral I wasn’t their sons boyfriend, or partner. No, I was simply his room mate.
There are legal necessities that every couple should get. Yes we could have dealt with the thousands of dollars and a lawyer to make a water tight contract that no one could get around. or we could simply be granted the right to marry, and those rights come encompassed. For those advocating Civil unions instead of Marriage: In a civil union, those in the union only have 3/4ths of the rights a marriage has. Still separate, still not equal.
*Choice: while many refuse to believe it, there is actually real, valid, and verifiable evidence that homosexuality in ANY SPECIES is not a choice. Get over your “this is your CHOICE” bull shyt. It’s wrong and you’re just too stubborn to understand it.
Jayson, thanks for sharing your story. I think it’s important to hear.
Joanna- great story as well. It amazes me that people want to refuse your family rights. Just amazes me.
Well, well, well…….
I have seen these same commercials and I am absolutely appalled at the scare tactics used to push this agenda through. Lets flip the script here for one second…
Religion was never about understanding, kindness, love, or doing unto others in the loving way. It is all about control, oppression, fear, and class society.
To oppress a class of individuals due to their sexual orientation based on some book written by goat herders several 1000 years ago, is the very definition of ignorant. I could care less who or what you may believe in, but do not try to thrust your beliefs on me via legislation. Keep your prophet’s to yourself.
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion, and this my friends is evil. It is on the exact scale of those same “Christians” that attempted to bar blacks from voting, or going to school.
The world holds two classes of people – intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence.
I disagree Judas. I’ve actually met many intelligent people of faith on all sides and from many different religions who understand they are not the only ones living and ruling in this country.
And most of them wouldn’t choose to discriminate against others.
However I’m finding myself hugely disappointed and saddened and frankly disgusted by those who would.
In fact, I was just talking with @socalmom about her Rabbi and his words
She said in his yom kipour sermon, it’s the last “permissible” group you can discriminate against and said that the council of reform rabbis in southern CA came out against 8
There are none more ignorant and useless, than they that seek answers on their knees, with their eyes closed.
Several thousand years ago, a small tribe of ignorant near-savages wrote various collections of myths, wild tales, lies, and gibberish. Over the centuries, these stories were embroidered, garbled, mutilated, and torn into small pieces that were then repeatedly shuffled. Finally, this material was badly translated into several languages successively. The resultant text, creationists feel, is the best guide to this complex and technical subject.
The God of the Bible is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. I have observed that the world has suffered far less from ignorance than from pretensions to knowledge. It is not skeptics or explorers but fanatics and ideologues who menace decency and progress. No agnostic ever burned anyone at the stake or tortured a pagan, a heretic, or an unbeliever.
If God kills, lies, cheats, discriminates, and otherwise behaves in a manner that puts the Mafia to shame, that’s okay, he’s God. He can do whatever he wants. Anyone who adheres to this philosophy has had his sense of morality, decency, justice and humaneness warped beyond recognition by the very book that is supposedly preaching the opposite.
Really…it is time to come back to reality.
But DarwinC do you subscribe to the idea if it makes you happy, it’s fine? I mean, I know a lot of people happy in their religion, it brings them joy and peace…and they happily do not inflict it on others.
………………………….ALL THESE COMMENTS ARE PHOTOSHOPPED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
this blog says what i’ve been trying to say (and not articulating quite as clearly)
thanks! couldnt have said it better myself!
The definition of bigot = a person utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.
Just because I support Prop. 8 and you do not, does not make me a bigot. I tolerate your opinion, but I do not agree with you. Furthermore, I do agree that all American citizens should have equal rights; and thus believe that civil unions, with the same legal entitlements received by married persons, should be available for same-sex couples to publicly and legally substaniate their commitments to one another. Regardless, I do not agree that same sex individuals should be allowed to “marry” in the same sense that one man and one woman “marry”.
If you do not agree with me, does that make you a bigot?
I love you for posting this, thats all.
Oh and thanks!