June 26, 2008
Memo to Senator McCain: Wife Beating Jokes Are Not Funny (Even If They Are Famous)
Apparently there is some old joke about being asked a loaded question:
“Are you still beating your wife?”
Of course I had never heard this used before, not in the context of lawyers or trials or even reporting.
Fine. Fair enough. I sure don’t know every pop-culture catch phrase out there (yes, I’m snickering).
So today when I came across remarks made by Senator John McCain to the Las Vegas Sun, I about fell out of my chair.
(On why he didn’t choose Gov. Jim Gibbons to chair his Nevada campaign?)
I appreciate his support. As you know, the lieutenant governor is our chairman.
(Why snub the governor?)
I didn’t mean to snub him,. I’ve known the lieutenant governor for 15 years and we’ve been good friends….I didn’t intend to snub him. There are other states where the governor is not the chairman.
(Maybe it’s the governor’s approval rating and you are running from him like you are from the president?)
(Chuckling) And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago….
Yes, Senator McCain laughed and made a joke about loaded questions and beating his wife, apparently riffing off some well turned phrase.
At best, this is just a poor, poor, poor, cliche’ to pick when you are courting Clinton voters. At worst, he’s perpetuating his image as “old school” and “sexism is funny.”
I informally polled some friends and family of various ages and only one had heard this phrase used before- my neighbor who is in his 70’s. I’m guessing the younger demo, widely voting for Senator Obama, looked at that Las Vegas Sun quote and did the same thing I did…”HE SAID WHAT???!!! AND HE THINKS THAT’S FUNNY???!!!”
I’m doing my best to keep a level head in this election (and now everyone else snickers) so I immediately e-mailed Liz Mair of the RNC. If and when she responds, I will post an update here.
In the meantime, what the hell is McCain thinking making a joke half of us don’t know is a joke???
Wonkette writes, “What does that Joke even mean? That John McCain trying to keep his distance from President Bush/Jim Gibbons is about as likely as him beating up his wife recently? Well for shame. We want a president who continues beating up his trollop wife IN THE WHITE HOUSE.”
Erica Saves the Day writes, “As my mom says, sarcasm always has an element of truth…”
I give McCain credit for making an attempt at humor, I really do. But could he have picked a WORSE joke? And yes, the candidates misspeak. We’ve been over this. McCain didn’t misspeak here though, he intentionally invoked a tasteless joke about beating wives.
I’ve heard a ton of well-known jokes that invoke racism too, should I bust one of those out next time I run for office?
Crossposted at BlogHer.com
On FriendFeed, this post was liked by 8 people and commented on 44 times hideLiked by
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What I get for not looking at the Sun today. For background, Gibbons is easilly a contender for worst governor in the country. On top of being in a possible sexual assault controversy and FBI financial investigation and still getting elected (thanks you crazy folks in rural Nevada), he's had no answers to any crisis that has arrived at his desk since being elected...
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And I did my best to not fly off the handle.
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I give you serious props for giving him the benefit of the doubt. My little butt would have jumped all over this mess. Anyone in 2008 should know that there are certain things you just should not say. This is one of those things. Some "jokes" just aren't funny.
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Oh believe me Michelle, I'm taking a cue and biting my tongue. Dammit I'm getting soft.
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Getting a File Not Found error for the link.
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I salute you for holding back..... You deserve the new stylebook...
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http://www.blogher.com/memo-senator-mccain-wife-beating-jokes-are-not-funny-even-if-they-are-famous it's on blogher. My site is being moved
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Perhaps it's the fact that I'm 46, but I see this as a legal phrase, not a wife beating phrase. The intent is to indicate that the person is being asked a question in such a way that ANY answer (yes, no) gets the person into trouble via self-incrimination. McCain's delivery was bad, but it's better than a Ron Ziegler no comment...whoops, the kids won't know who Ron Ziegler is either...
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If you think about it, just recently FriendFeed said that it was not out to...um..."kill" Twitter. Why aren't the victims' rights groups picketing FriendFeed? Why isn't Fred Goldman on TV complaining about the uncaring injustice of Silicon Valley? Why isn't John Walsh asking what happened to "do no evil"? Let's face it, murder is more offensive than wife beating...
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It just shows that McCain is insensitive and does not chose his words wisely.
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So does anyone think that McCain beats his wife, is promoting wife-beating, or enabling people to beat their spouses by saying this? If you want to be outraged at something, be outraged at him being an Ivy League elitist who responds to questions using logical fallacy examples. That McCain, he's so elitist: we can't have no elitist presidents. Everyone needs to take a breather: this isn't going to change the election.
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did you even read my post? do you see outrage there?
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Yes, I did, and yeah, I do.
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Well I'm not. I think it's stupid, and even say I give the guy credit for humor, I just think it's a bad move in the day of who is 'proud' and who wears 'flagpins' or not. Not to mention I really don't care if it's common and totally widely accepted- because I'm thinking of several racist common and widely accepted phrases used too. If you're courting clinton voters, not smooth.
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So what you're saying is that Clinton supporters have no grasp on common debate terminology.
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With all due respect Erin, I think you're making mountains out of molehills. Most people will never even see the transcript you quoted, most people know an invocation of the "when did you stop beating your wife?" question means you think the question was compound (I mean, honestly, I learned this when I was in grammar school, and I didn't have any special upbringing. I can't think of a single person I know who doesn't know the question), and most people don't care. This isn't going to change anyone's vote.
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Agree not a smoth move for courting Clinton voters. But such a common phrase that it has lost its literal meaning for me
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oh sweet baby jesus Mark. I'm saying you should probably not use any cliche's that invoke wife beating no matter how fucking famous they are. He's all Mr. I LOVE WOMEN right now. Next time I'm pretty sure he can skip the entire cliche' and just say 'That's a loaded question, I'm not going to answer it' - especially when your reputation is to call your wife a cunt.
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Can't we just talk about Loren and Shel some more? OK-just a joke...
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Erin, no reasonable person associates the act of wife beating or enabling wife beating with the question. It's like getting annoyed (or whatever you want to call it, I don't care) about someone saying "Man, I'm sick as a dog!" because someone at Peta might get upset because of some possible connotation with thinking dogs are sick. This is absurd.
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there is a bitch joke there Mark. There is. I just am not witty enough to find it. Anyway. I'm obviously unreasonable. I'm not like MAD, I'm just shaking my head. No reasonable person votes for McCain either...so it's all good. ;P
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I know that's the point you're attempting to make, Erin. The underlying point is that because no one you immediately polled knew the phrase, or because only highly educated folks know this phrase (or old - your supposition is a bit murky to me), Hillary supporters can't know what that means, because they're not that smart. My overlying point is that it isn't very fun when people take your original meaning and twist it to mean something completely different. You know that first hand now, and in context.
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....
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Mark you are on crack. My underlying point is that wife beating cliche's, jokes, and otherwise common language-legal, accepted or otherwise- are SEXIST and have no business coming out of Mr. My Wife is CUNT's mouth. I don't care if every clinton voter on earth knows and loves this phrase, McCain, as a matter of strategy, should avoid any and all things that even come close to sexist as he courts the female vote.
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Erin, I don't mean to call you unreasonable: I just think there's enough heavy, huge, major, oh-my-god-what-the-hell things that are wrong with McCain, even given the specific audience of former Clinton supporters, that you don't need to straw man the problems McCain has with Gotcha!s like this. It's a distraction to his more serious issues: if we're all focusing on how poor of an interviewee McCain is, he gets away with his horrendous positions on women's rights, economy, health care, foreign policy, etc.
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it's an example to me, a reminder, that his humor is laced in sexism. that he's not my candidate. that he shoots himself in the foot frequently and that I'm not a fan. I agree. Much bigger fish to fry. Happened to flop down on my bloggy plate as I sat down to write tonight. Add it to the 'mccan sucks at talking' pile and move on.
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as a complete aside my husband wants you all to know he walked across the street today in santa monica- crossing 7th and wilshire- with the boss from Office Space
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McCain is a jerk, Erin. He's not my candidate either. That said, boy, am I glad I am not on his PR team. :P
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Erin you're smoking crack, my dear. Why can't campaigns be run on issues and not emotions. This is a nothing issue and I don't even particularly like McCain.
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Office Space?! :D
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McCain is not my candidate either, but in fact, this is a very commonly used expression, not a joke. It's a comment on a leading question by a reporter. If you ask someone, "when did you stop beating your wife," there's no good answer. The question pre-supposes guilt. Of course, you could also say, "when did you stop robbing banks" but the other is the common colloquialism.
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Dammit Erin this is twice in a week you have made me say this but you are right. I appreciate the fact that no one is jumping to ridiculous assertions that this makes them believe that McCain abuses his wife, etc - even so one of the challenges he has always had is that his strength is his willingness to shoot straighter than most and eschew strict reliance on talking points - those of us who are inclined to agree with (at least some of) his positions find the distraction just as unfortunate as Mark does
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Lumberg? Does he look the same? Did he get a picture? Man, whatever happened to that guy. Well, besides walking across the street with your husband.
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Funny, nobody actually cares !! Take a look at your post - zero comments there !! Yet, a full and healthy discourse is happening here. That by itself indicates that people really dont care what they hear from others. The day, that his wife yells , then every1 will care. Till then, Censorial "kink" is legal :)- ..ok go figure where I went with that thought..:)- What matter , stuff that matters ? sexism is just a distractor
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talk to me when we're not discussing flagpins.
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ummm... am I supposed to want comments?
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Am I the only person who thinks that if you don't know "have you stopped beating your wife?" as the prime example of the loaded question, you should be tortured with a thousand papercuts from the edges of the tens of millions of books which have referenced it? Seriously, it's not a pop culture reference, it's a LITERATE reference, and I'd be ashamed to say I didn't recognize it in a public place. Certainly no one who considers themselves in any way competent to wield the pen of wit should take pride in it.
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I love you too Alexander.
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"What's love got to do with it?"
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So glad I don't wield any pens of wit or otherwise. hey did you know mccain doesn't wield a computer? (sorry Marco)
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A thought before sleep: McCain CHUCKLED and said "And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago…." an obvious attempt at humor. Let's have that on tape and replayed. There is no 'eenie meanie miny moe'-might be well known, accepted, and not mean ANYTHING, but I remember all to well how that one ended as a kid. Here we have a well known (see the title of my post-because I did actually read before posting) maybe innocent, but when chuckled by a US prez just sounds stupid. Bad. Strategy.
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I give up. (I actually gave up a long time ago to get some real work done), but I really give up now. I'm mostly arguing semantics since I'm really not all that pleased with McCain being the only proper oppositional candidate for Obama (as if Bob Barr could get ballot access in half of America after Ron Paul's debacle). I really feel like I have no one to vote for in the coming election. It's a really lonely feeling.
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"If voting could make a difference, it'd be illegal. If NOT voting could make a difference, it'd be illegal." And I'd like to add, if this is the best substantiative debate of differences that can be brought to bear, it's clear it's a First World Problem. No one in Zimbabwe cares about the rhetorical references or flourishes of the guy about to steal their land and rape their children. Context is everything.
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This is so "Rush Limbaugh picking at straws" argumentation...
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June 26th, 2008 at 9:50 pm, mothergoosemouse Says:
Yes, I’ve heard of it. Kyle loves nit-picking logic flaws, and he’s cited that one before (although his favorite is “Have you told your mother you masturbate yet?”). Would’ve been funnier if McCain had used that line.
Anyway, I understand his reference - basically he’s saying that the assumption is that he’s running from Bush and Gibbons, and that by giving a yes/no answer, he’s validating that assumption - just as with the above questions.
But yeah, I’d agree that this is another example of being out of touch.
June 27th, 2008 at 6:16 am, Maria Says:
Um yeah– not funny. Not funny at all.
June 27th, 2008 at 7:20 am, Queen of Spain Says:
I think if McCain says ‘Have you told you Mother you masturbated yet’ and chuckles I just might die
June 27th, 2008 at 8:22 am, Queen of Spain Says:
ABC on the comments http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/06/mccain-gambles.html
and most of the discussion is at BlogHer and on Friend Feed
June 27th, 2008 at 8:31 am, Miz LIz Says:
What did Cyndi Lauper say? “I see your true colours coming through….”
June 27th, 2008 at 1:01 pm, the slackmistress Says:
I think the RNC is going to learn the hard way that “The Old Boys Club” is no longer crisp white linens, fancy separate entrances and expensive bourbon, but a buncha guys in a makeshift shack swillin’ rotgut.
And I can’t wait.
June 28th, 2008 at 10:36 am, Caroline Says:
Ick, I kind of feel sick to my stomach reading this. McCain has got no room for error. Keep talking, buddy. You’re sealing your fate one stupid quip at a time.
July 15th, 2008 at 8:41 am, Larfnot Says:
Yes, it’s an old joke about phrasing a question in such a way that providing an answer validates an unflattering premise. That is, a reporter asks a question “When did you stop beating your wife?” So, McCain was remarking that the question he was being asked was leading and that he couldn’t win by answering it. Old news men and public figures are probably more familiar with the reference than the general public. I actually feel kind of sorry for McCain because it wasn’t really a tasteless joke at all, but if you didn’t get the reference, it just sounds oddly offensive and awkward. Oh well. I’d make an age joke here about a generation gap, but I’m only 30 and I recognized the reference, so *shrug*
July 15th, 2008 at 3:46 pm, Bruce Says:
Larfnot is absolutely correct. This was never a “joke”. Just shows how uninformed/un educated most of these replys are. This was used as one of many examples in the Police Academys, Law Schools, my college philosophy courses and probably political circles as how to phrase a question that no matter how it is answers you have trapped the respondent.
Typical Knee Jerk reaction.