I’m really tired of dancing around this and trying to be nice.
I’ve seen your really cute church ads. I’ve heard you talk about how, in your whacky world of crazy, letting a gay couple marry would somehow infringe on your religious rights. How you’re doing it for the protection of ‘our children’ and how it’s really not about tolerance of ‘lifestyles’ but how it’s about you being ‘forced’ to accept same-sex unions.
Can I just say…YOU EVIL BASTARDS.
And I mean that with all the love in my heart.
This isn’t about religion or what you believe. This is about civil rights and your bigotry. Yes, your religion has made you a bigot. An evil, hating, horrible, bigot.
If you would like your children to not hear about anyone different from them, feel free to keep them the hell out of public schools and for that matter, public places. Because we here in the ‘public’ are not all like you and we allow our citizens, ALL OUR CITIZENS, the same rights.
I’m seeing YES ON PROP 8 signs in my neighborhood and I have half a mind to knock on their doors and ask them why they think bigotry is ok. Why they think denying rights to others is ok. Why they think their family is better than any other family. Why, exactly, they have SUCH EVIL IN THEIR HEARTS. And where the FUCK they get off with the smiling happy stick-figure family representing them on those fucked up signs.
If your religion does not allow you to marry someone of the same sex..then don’t. If your religion allows for bigotry, perhaps you should find another religion.
Seriously. I am disgusted. Absolutely disgusted by supporters of Prop 8.
I can see absolutely NO justification for this legislation other than you implementing your evil across California.
As my husband just said, Orthodox Jews can’t work on Saturdays…do we come up with legislation making it illegal for everyone to work on Saturdays?
It’s the same thing. You get that, right?
No. You don’t. Because you’re evil, and you some how think gays being allowed the same rights as you is bad.
Perhaps you need to live somewhere that doesn’t allow rights to all it’s citizens. Somewhere where everyone is just like you and thinks like you and lives like you.
Now, many of you will be very quick to point out the Obama-Biden take on gay marriage. And let us BE CLEAR about that record, shall we? I am not naive enough to think every candidate is perfect, and I am disappointed my candidates won’t go that extra mile for gay marriage. But let’s face it…it’s your fault.
You make up a large electorate and they can’t alienate half the country. I get that. They want to make sure all voices are heard in American, even the evil ones.
It’s WRONG, but I get it. I’m also proud that they’ve supported equal rights for the LGBT community and will not support any constitutional amendments defining marriage.
Now you, on the other hand…what’s your excuse? Your religion says gay is wrong? Your religion also says you should stone wicked kids, but…I digress.
Get your bigotry out of my state. Get it out of my schools and get it out of my country. ALL are welcome, and that means you too, if you can stay and play nice.
Forced toleration can suck sometimes. But hey, I have to tolerate you, so it works both ways.
Oh, and by the way…years from now, when this is looked back upon like the civil rights movement in the 60’s, and people ask you what side you were on…have fun explaining that one.
*updated 10/20/2008
I keep re-reading and re-reading this post because it’s gnawing at me and won’t seem to let me go. Yes, I am angry. I am very angry over this issue, and writing this was cathartic and let me push all my anger onto a blank page. But as the debate and venom continues over same-sex marriage, I’m worried my hitting ‘publish’ did more harm than good. That I just threw out something into the world that spewed just as much hate as the what I perceive to be coming at me from those who support this measure. To be clear, and as I said in comments, I do not believe all religions and all faiths are evil or bigoted. I found more love in some Christian friends and family than can be expressed. I’ve also seen entire Jewish communities condemn this measure and other faiths rally against discrimination and bigotry. But perhaps, what I keep getting as I re-read this…is a microcosm of what’s gotten so out of hand on this issue and in this entire election: we’re all just name calling and screaming at each other. I regret adding to that, I truly do…but it’s so hard when you feel pushed there. Pushed by whatever entities are at work. So I’m letting this post stand because it’s a fair representation of how I felt when I wrote it, it does-if you can get past the venom-convey all the things I find wrong about this measure and why it should be defeated. But it occurs to me that this entire fight…this battle…is over love. Who can love. How they can love. Why they can or can not love. And the last thing it needs is more hate thrown in. So before you add to the hundreds of comments here or continue to scream and yell, please take that into consideration. Love. -ekv
As usual, you said everything that needed to be said, and you said it perfectly.
Thank you for calling it what it is, bigotry. Everything else in their campaign is subterfuge.
@jesseluna on Twitter
I have yet to hear one argument against gay marriage that does not include ‘believe’
I know EXACTLY what you mean. Over here in Bakersfield, prop.8 signs are everywhere. It’s freaking ridiculous! This is a city full of conservatives and reactionaries. It’s totally lame.
I’ve only seen two Obama signs around town- almost everybody else has a McCain+Palin sign, and many of them have American flags upside down. This is one of the least tolerant places in California for sure
You know, if God really hated teh gays, he’d REQUIRE them to get married, not prohibit it.
That’s a really, really good point RTKettle
I’m with you, girl.
I love @petcobra on twitter who tweeted “Still waiting for gay marriage to affect the sanctity of mine…nope, nothing yet.”
I agree with the fact that religious beliefs should never be made into laws, I’m a christian and i disagree with homosexuality, bit its one’s choice and should not be made into legislation. The thought that a christian moral could be made into a law is absurd. Pre-marital sex could never be made illegal, and neither could lying or using God’s name in vain. The same applies here.
As a fellow Californian: what you said.
I don’t watch much TV, but I did put in a few hours last week and was literally BOMBARDED with these sickening ads. They’re even on during the day—and you know what? If you don’t want your kids knowing about same-sex marriage, why put them on prime time? Stupidest fucking thing on their part. As for me, my seven-year-old saw one and asked me if boys could really marry boys. Explaining equality was one of the best conversations I’ve ever had with one of my kids. Thanks, Yes on 8.
thanks Matt! See- SANITY PREVAILS!
Bigotry is “prejudice against one or all members of a particular group based on negative perceptions of their beliefs and practices.”
You’re right, it’s bigoted to suggest that a homosexual man or woman is any less of a human being than a heterosexual. If the “Yes on 8″ers are knocking on your door with that message — using those words — absolutely, f**k those individuals.
But it’s also bigoted to say that ALL members of ALL religions that consider procreative unions sacred have “evil in their hearts.” It’s your blog, so rant away. I’m just saying, huge generalizations on both sides are wrong. And looking back years from now, your words — “wacky/crazy/hating/horrible” — won’t be any more defensible.
Amen, sister! Thank you (and thank Mr Lady for sending me here).
Now how ’bout let’s pass the potatoes! Every single dollar that people donate goes directly into No on 8 ads where the Yes message is carpet-bombing people’s brains. And focus groups show: when folks see both of ’em, they basically go: “Oh! Duh!” And essentially agree with you.
Anything, everything will make the difference!
Your rant is so funny, and a true expose of the “tolerance” of the left. You are as bad and evil as the people you condemn, but you’re unable to see it. Those of us who are “right” thinking see you as a whining voice of illogic. So enjoy your little blog; it was good for a laugh.
Seriously. It’s appalling to me how often people attempt to use their “moral authority” as a defense for their blatant bigotry and prejudice. This issue is about civil rights, and every single person’s right to civil rights. Period.
here’s a couple:
http://prop8discussion.wordpress.com/2008/10/09/legislation-and-social-issues/
http://prop8discussion.wordpress.com/2008/10/15/marriage-and-culture-2/
also, you sound very hateful. you actually sound pretty intolerant. your arguments are just as invalid as the ones you believe are coming from the other side.
and there is no law talking about pre or extra marital sex. it’s neither encouraged by the state or discouraged. and it’s not taught in schools (besides std’s and contraceptives)
I think I am very clearly speaking to those who are bigots.
and if you support prop 8, you are a bigot. sorry if your religion condones that sort of thing.
and for the record, there are plenty of sane, loving, caring and religious individuals who do NOT support prop 8 and continue to NOT think same sex marriage is ok for THEM. They, are not evil. You…well, you clearly are.
Very well said! And for anyone who still doubts that same-sex marriage shouldn’t be made illegal – I live in Canada. It’s been legal up here nationally, with precisely the same legal status as heterosexual marriage, since 2005. Sooner in most provinces. The country hasn’t been destroyed. Heterosexual marriage hasn’t been destroyed. The youth hasn’t been corrupted. There’s been no spike in crime. There’s been no harm to anyone. Which lets me quote one of my favourite political theorists, John Stuart Mill:
“That principle is, that the sole end for which mankind are warranted, individually or collectively, in interfering with the liberty of action of any of their number, is self-protection. That the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not sufficient warrant. He cannot rightfully be compelled to do or forbear because it will be better for him to do so, because it will make him happier, because, in the opinion of others, to do so would be wise, or even right… The only part of the conduct of anyone, for which he is amenable to society, is that which concerns others. In the part which merely concerns himself, his independence is, of right, absolute. Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign.”
That’s the harm principle from “On Liberty.” Seems pretty good to me. If something won’t hurt other people, you can’t stop someone from doing it to themselves, no matter what you think. You haven’t the right.
I stumbleupon’d this blog and I’m glad I did. You said just about everything that needed to be said. I also find it interesting that, after reading this blog, some people are calling the author a bigot while completely disregarding the bigoted views that, I assume, they support.
I’d also like to say just how ludicrous the argument that marriage will be discussed in schools if Prop 8 doesn’t pass. I am currently a high school student, and I have never discussed marriage in a classroom. Not once, in the past ten years, has marriage been discussed in one of my classes. The only time students discuss homosexuality and marriage is on their own time, at breaks or on the playground, etc. Prop 8 won’t stop this. Kids will discuss issues like this anyway. The only purpose Prop 8 serves is to push the views of the Christian right and deny the LBGT community their basic civil rights.
I live out here in the heartland of the US. What’s the deal with this Prop 8? Come on California, we look to you to set the trends and the tone for the rest of us out here, not take us back into the Dark Ages. Vote No!
To those calling the author a bigot, evil, or hateful–
Sucks that people are speaking out against your beliefs, doesn’t it? That many people disagree with how you live your life and—
Oh wait. That sounds familiar, doesn’t it? It’s crazy that when Christians get offended, they get to make laws to force others into following their beliefs.
The world is a sad, sad place.
The problem is that the U.S.A. is and always has been a nation based on Protestant fundamentalist ideas. Its extreme domestic and foreign policies are more reminiscent of Islamic theocracies than Western secularist states. Indeed, the blogger’s tolerance of these bigots shows that even enlightened Americans promote Christian ideology as unavoidable and even acceptable.
Your traditional allies and supporters are getting sick of this. I personally have withdrawn my tourism- (and where convenient purchasing-) dollars from your economy until such time as things change in a big way.
p.s. Yes, I am aware that most if not all American readers of my comment will not have the literacy skills to comprehend it.
I understand where you are coming from and I agree that religious people are often very predjudice but you have to remember, they are raised to believe that way. I am a Christian and I certainly don’t hate gay people or wish for anyone to reverse the right they were given to get married, but I don’t think you’re being entirely fair. Not everyone who believes in reversing that right necessarily hates gay people. They simply believe in what they have learned from the bible. Whether or not you agree with that is a personal choice. I think the best alternative would be to allow civil unions without introducing ‘holy unions’ as a legal matter because after all, there is a separation of church and state in our country. I think that we can all compromise if we learn to accept each others opinions. Aren’t you being a slight bigot by being so mean to the people you call bigots? By not trying to understand their point of view? I just think it is important to look at all aspects of an issue.
I am full agreement on half of this, as I sort of take the Ron Paul take on this.
I don’t think that “gay marriage” should be legal, in the sense that “marriage” is a religious institution. That being said, the fact that the religious idea of “marriage” has been blended with the “legal” definition needs looking into.
I don’t think that churches should be forced to marry a gay couple. That falls in line with the separation of church and state. However, there ARE a number of religious organizations that are willing to do so. What about the religious freedoms of THOSE religions? Why shouldn’t THEY be allowed to marry two people in their religion just because YOUR religion is against it?
I think that two people, no matter their gender, should be denied the same rights that heterosexual couple still share.
I think “civil unions” should be allowed between any two people who want it, and I think the word “marriage” should be stricken from all government documents.
I meant to say “shouldn’t be denied.” My bad.
I was appalled to read and hear about Proposition 8!
There is no moral justification for it. It is an outrage for people to use their “faith” to justify discrimination. If same sex relationships don’t appeal to you, don’t enter into one! If the Higher Power you believe in or worship commands you to hate or abuse others, then what value does such a faith have?
Live and let live!
you rock. I’m so not articulate when it comes to my comments. But I mean it so deeply.
poop
You said: “As my husband just said, Orthodox Jews can’t work on Saturdays…do we come up with legislation making it illegal for everyone to work on Saturdays?”
Perhaps not, but until not too long ago there were laws that made it illegal for stores to open on Sundays so that CHRISTIANS could observe their holy day. There is a dominant religion in the United States. National holidays are the Christian ones, not Jewish ones or Muslim ones or Buddhist ones. And when politicians continue to mix religion with politics, when they feel it is appropriate to have God guide their foreign policy, and when they say “God Bless America” in their speeches, they are saying that the interests and beliefs of some Americans are more valuable than others.
I’m in complete agreement with your post BTW, but just wanted to point out why noone is proposing legislation to protect a Jewish day of rest.
I admire the use of the word “evil” to refer to the anti-gay faction. It’s about time somebody called a spade a spade; this is not some trivial difference of opinion, this is a battle between those who want freedom and those who want government-enforced bondage for their fellow human beings.
Okay, here’s an argument without “believe” in it: It is completely ignorant for any logical person to consider homosexuality to be a normal lifestyle. You don’t have to be religious, you just have to be smart, to see that it is an abhoration. Men were made for women, and vice versa. It’s logical common sense. Homosexuals make up for less taht 2% of the America’s population. How can that be considered normal?? If it is, then pedophilia is also normal, because the percentages are the same for it! As a society it is incumbent upon us to guard ourselves against implosion. Condoning acts of illogical sexual abhoration, by treating it as it is the same as heterosexuality is just stupid. PLEASE tell me that Americans aren’t this stupid, that we would grant abnormal sexuality the status of normalcy for the sake of political correctness.
Good luck on bringing down Prop 8. I live in Utah where allot of the financial support comes from for Prop 8 If you don’t already know, the Mormon Church has been pushing millions of dollars to supporters in your state to abolish Gay Marriage. I live in the middle of a republican holier than thou neighborhood. The “Church” is embedded in everything here, politics included which they lie about. They could tell almost every voter in Utah how to vote on an issue and the sheep would fall in line obediently. I sometimes feel sorry for them, that someone owns their souls and can use them for their zealous agendas.
anyone who compares homosexuality to pedophilia is not only an idiot, but a complete asshole. Just sayin’.
I am tired of people accusing liberals of “not being tolerant and open minded” when they speak up passionately against injustice. The definition of liberal has nothing to do with accepting all (bigoted) points of views.
Hating hatred is not nearly the moral equivalent of hating love, which is what Prop 8 is about.
Sing it, Erin.
Loved this post. Loved Sully’s comment. Such a good point. I really never thought about the freedom of religion argument from the perspective of a church who WANTS to perform gay marriages.
Any way you slice this, it DOES come down to a question of civil rights.
Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.
Thank you for publishing this. I echo your sentiments exactly, and I’d like to nominate you for Queen of Spain AND America please:)
Imagine being gay in California. First we say you can’t get married. Then Gavin Newsome pushes it through, you get married, and then we say, “oops, now you can’t!”. Who do we think we are!? Gay couples often have children. How can we put those kids through that roller coaster? We cannot give and then take away such an important right. What if straight marriage was banned by an election, and suddenly everything you had worked so hard for was gone? What would you tell your kids? If you don’t want to marry a same sex partner, don’t! But stay out of other people’s bedrooms. They don’t want us there any more than we want them in ours.
I love you Erin.
To discriminate is to hate which is why I’m voting NO on 8.
You rawk gurl, seriously. Mwah!
so in other words, I agree with you!
There’s bigotry on both sides of this issue.
If the purpose of your post is to further agitate the already agitated, to say, effectively, “Jesus Freaks suck!” and get some easy amens from the anti-religion set, you nailed it.
If the purpose is to turn people around on the issue…it’s tone-deaf.
Example. What if you came across a blog post with these statements:
1. “If you gays insist that your kids learn about ‘non-traditional marriage,’ feel free to keep them the hell out of public schools, and for that matter, public places.”
2. “If your orientation makes you commit socially unacceptable acts, perhaps you should stop being gay.”
3. “You evil, homo bastards.”
See? Vile. No one wants their cherished beliefs/choices demonized. I know there are hearts out there that are yours for the swaying — religious believers who don’t understand pro-gay-marriage arguments, but could be made to.
You say you’re tempted to knock on doors with “Yes on 8” signs and ask them why they feel the way they do. By all means, knock. That dialogue would be good for you both.
Again you are right on it. I am just truly amazed at how fundamental Christians to twist the Bible to their use. First they will tell you that the Old Testament is no longer valid because of the New Testament but when needed they will quote and throw the Old at us.
You are extremely right that this is bigotry with a capital B and evil. How anyone can say you are evil because you do not agree with fundamental Christians is insane.
Keep up what you are doing – you are awesome!!!
the difference is my cherished beliefs/ choices are allowed by law. because all men and women are created equal. so are theres. when they try to take away right to an entire population, you’re damn right I get vile.
Is what annoys me, other than the DOMA act signed by Clinton, is that hetero marriage is federally recognized. If marriage is so “holy” then it shouldn’t be. We are SUPPOSED to be a secular nation. Obviously we are not, and that saddens me deeply. For every forward step this nation takes, it moves back three. I know many people that support “civil-unions” of equal rights, but isn’t that an oxymoron? If it was equal, there would be no need for a separate term. Religion should play no part in anything that this country does. Bush’s “Faith Based Initiatives” should be disbanded based solely on that fact. In fact religions shouldn’t have tax-free status. I know I went off topic, but unfortunately it’s completely connected. I think that any person who opposes equality should have their equality stripped. If it’s good enough for you then it’s good enough for all. I’m fairly certain that Jesus wouldn’t have a problem with gay marriage. From what I understand, he believed in love and understanding. Or am I wrong?
Your ALL IGNORANT – Anyone that is for state instituted marriage (Gay or Straight). The government should not be allowed to say who or who cannot marry. You’re all a bunch of IDIOTS! WAKE UP!
I am from northern california, and I have been seeing yes on 8 signs all over the place, it depresses me as well. At my Uncle’s wedding, a former Catholic priest was there talking about how those signs were depressing him as well. He is not a former Catholic priest because of his beliefs but rather because he is old. I just want to go to the doors of the yes on 8 signs and ask why? I just hope that people my age are voting and have the same opinions they did when prop 22 was on the ticket and we couldn’t vote. We had a student vote going on and Prop 22 which was for gay marriage, “passed” among us with flying colors, in my school district.