I’m really tired of dancing around this and trying to be nice.
I’ve seen your really cute church ads. I’ve heard you talk about how, in your whacky world of crazy, letting a gay couple marry would somehow infringe on your religious rights. How you’re doing it for the protection of ‘our children’ and how it’s really not about tolerance of ‘lifestyles’ but how it’s about you being ‘forced’ to accept same-sex unions.
Can I just say…YOU EVIL BASTARDS.
And I mean that with all the love in my heart.
This isn’t about religion or what you believe. This is about civil rights and your bigotry. Yes, your religion has made you a bigot. An evil, hating, horrible, bigot.
If you would like your children to not hear about anyone different from them, feel free to keep them the hell out of public schools and for that matter, public places. Because we here in the ‘public’ are not all like you and we allow our citizens, ALL OUR CITIZENS, the same rights.
I’m seeing YES ON PROP 8 signs in my neighborhood and I have half a mind to knock on their doors and ask them why they think bigotry is ok. Why they think denying rights to others is ok. Why they think their family is better than any other family. Why, exactly, they have SUCH EVIL IN THEIR HEARTS. And where the FUCK they get off with the smiling happy stick-figure family representing them on those fucked up signs.
If your religion does not allow you to marry someone of the same sex..then don’t. If your religion allows for bigotry, perhaps you should find another religion.
Seriously. I am disgusted. Absolutely disgusted by supporters of Prop 8.
I can see absolutely NO justification for this legislation other than you implementing your evil across California.
As my husband just said, Orthodox Jews can’t work on Saturdays…do we come up with legislation making it illegal for everyone to work on Saturdays?
It’s the same thing. You get that, right?
No. You don’t. Because you’re evil, and you some how think gays being allowed the same rights as you is bad.
Perhaps you need to live somewhere that doesn’t allow rights to all it’s citizens. Somewhere where everyone is just like you and thinks like you and lives like you.
Now, many of you will be very quick to point out the Obama-Biden take on gay marriage. And let us BE CLEAR about that record, shall we? I am not naive enough to think every candidate is perfect, and I am disappointed my candidates won’t go that extra mile for gay marriage. But let’s face it…it’s your fault.
You make up a large electorate and they can’t alienate half the country. I get that. They want to make sure all voices are heard in American, even the evil ones.
It’s WRONG, but I get it. I’m also proud that they’ve supported equal rights for the LGBT community and will not support any constitutional amendments defining marriage.
Now you, on the other hand…what’s your excuse? Your religion says gay is wrong? Your religion also says you should stone wicked kids, but…I digress.
Get your bigotry out of my state. Get it out of my schools and get it out of my country. ALL are welcome, and that means you too, if you can stay and play nice.
Forced toleration can suck sometimes. But hey, I have to tolerate you, so it works both ways.
Oh, and by the way…years from now, when this is looked back upon like the civil rights movement in the 60’s, and people ask you what side you were on…have fun explaining that one.
*updated 10/20/2008
I keep re-reading and re-reading this post because it’s gnawing at me and won’t seem to let me go. Yes, I am angry. I am very angry over this issue, and writing this was cathartic and let me push all my anger onto a blank page. But as the debate and venom continues over same-sex marriage, I’m worried my hitting ‘publish’ did more harm than good. That I just threw out something into the world that spewed just as much hate as the what I perceive to be coming at me from those who support this measure. To be clear, and as I said in comments, I do not believe all religions and all faiths are evil or bigoted. I found more love in some Christian friends and family than can be expressed. I’ve also seen entire Jewish communities condemn this measure and other faiths rally against discrimination and bigotry. But perhaps, what I keep getting as I re-read this…is a microcosm of what’s gotten so out of hand on this issue and in this entire election: we’re all just name calling and screaming at each other. I regret adding to that, I truly do…but it’s so hard when you feel pushed there. Pushed by whatever entities are at work. So I’m letting this post stand because it’s a fair representation of how I felt when I wrote it, it does-if you can get past the venom-convey all the things I find wrong about this measure and why it should be defeated. But it occurs to me that this entire fight…this battle…is over love. Who can love. How they can love. Why they can or can not love. And the last thing it needs is more hate thrown in. So before you add to the hundreds of comments here or continue to scream and yell, please take that into consideration. Love. -ekv
I would be VERY careful about changing our state’s Constitution! Remember who’s behind proposition 8. The wording of this ammendment is unusual, as this ministry points out..
How many hours have been spent in courtrooms arguing over commas in the 2nd ammendment? Let’s leave our state constitution alone!
(Sorry so long!)
If the benefits of marriage are bestowed upon straights due to their ability to contribute to society through the children they will raise as at least one commenter claimed, then how is that:
1)People who do not intend to have children (but are straight) can legally marry?
2)People who are physically unable to procreate (but are straight) can legally marry?
Face it, we are not allowed the benefit of legal marriage for any reason having to do with actually giving birth to (or even raising) children. If it were so, those who plan to be childfree or are unable to give birth or plan to not give birth OR adopt would be barred from legal marriage.
Additionally, gay couples can adopt and thus can (and many do) raise children who may otherwise not have the opportunity to be raised by a family and whose future may be in jeopardy without adoption, thus making the same contribution as straight couples who raise children (and in fact, it could be argued, even *more* of a contribution by raising a child who needs a home and family rather than adding another person to the pop. when so many are in need of good families).
Gay couples can also have children through surrogacy, etc. just as many straight couples do, and, again, can thus still make the same contribution a straight couple with kids would, that is working to raise a (hopefully) productive member of society.
So given that, the procreation argument is null and void from what I can see and would not be equally applied to all who don’t plan to have children or who won’t be conceiving and giving birth to children, just to *gay* couples in those categories.
According to the arguments I’ve heard (from a commenter here and from others elsewhere) only gay people who can’t together physically create a child should be barred from legal marriage, but not straight people in the same situation. Hmmm…
And additionally the issue of adoption or other ways to have children is completely ignored, again (as with the point above) leading me to believe that the procreation argument is an empty justification for discrimination since different standards are applied to those who can’t or won’t have or raise children depending on if they are to gay or straight and to those who may have or raise children in less typical ways, such as through adoption, surrogacy etc. again depending on whether they are gay or straight.
A couple I know has no kids, intends to never have them, and can’t physically have them and does not plan on adoption either yet had no problem legally marrying in California. According to the “marriage is a benefit bestowed upon those who will give back to society through children” argument, how is that couple contributing more than, say, a gay couple who will go on, as many in fact do, to raise a household full of happy, healthy children who go on to become productive members of society?
Also, as a side note, marriage is not a “holy” issue in regard to the issue of gay marriage. Marriage is a legal benefit bestowed upon us by the government; the religious components are not universal and are optional and dependent upon one’s faith, one’s practice, etc. Not at all straight people can marry in any religous ceremony of their choice either; it depends on the rules and requirements of the religion, so this has nothing to do with that issue.
The question here is about LEGAL marriage, which makes it a civil issue not a religious one. According to Prop 8 gay couples would be barred from legally marrying, meaning they could not marry in say a civil ceremony at City Hall, making them thus unable to benefit from the legal advantages of marriage as determined by our government. That becomes a civil rights issue as the law would be not treating all equally.
The issue about the civil benefits of marriage and legal union and not about religious leaders having to marry those whose practices they disagree with as each religion already sets its own requirements for who they’ll marry anyway and that would be no different with or without legal gay marriage (in the civil sense, which is what we are talking about here).
I see no way society would be harmed by defining legal (not religious) marriage as a union between two people who love each other and plan to stay together and create a life together for a lifetime (though we know not all succeed in this regard, gay or straight, of course).
If the issue is about children, then apply it equally for gays and straights. Of course that would never fly, yet it’s supposed to pass as explanation for barring *only* gay couples (who often do raise children anyway) from marriage? Sorry, I don’t think so.
I’m an atheist, but was brought up a ministers son, so I’m quite familiar with the Bible. Back in June, my local newspaper was filled with letters every day written by people who were using the Bible to justify their feelings against same sex marriage. I couldn’t take it any longer, and decided to send a letter to the editor that just might make them think. It was published as a stand alone piece the following Sunday. This is what I wrote…
Re: The recent quoting of the Bible to justify prohibiting same sex marriages:
A true Christian believes that God is infallible, which means that if you believe one part of the Bible, you must believe the whole thing, not just bits and pieces. There are many things that your Bible would have outlawed:
Men having sex with men:
Leviticus 18:22 – You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Marrying someone who is divorced:
Matthew 5:32 – But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
Paying interest:
Leviticus 25:37 – Thou shalt not give him thy money upon usury, nor lend him thy victuals for increase.
Charging interest (banking):
Deuteronomy 23:19 – Thou shalt not lend upon usury to thy brother; usuary of money, usury of victuals, usury of any thing that is lent upon usury.
Eating lobster:
Leviticus 11:9-12 – Of all the creatures living in the water of the seas and the streams, you may eat any that have fins and scales. But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales–whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water–you are to detest. And since you are to detest them, you must not eat their meat.
Wearing gold jewelry:
1 Peter 3:3 – Do not adorn yourselves outwardly by braiding your hair, and by wearing gold ornaments or fine clothing.
Wearing poly/cotton blend clothes:
Leviticus 19:19 – Keep my decrees; Do not mate different kinds of animals. Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.
Women talking in church:
1 Corinthians 14:34 – women should remain silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but must be subordinate, as the Law says.
Exercising:
1 Timothy 4:8 – For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.
If someone wants to be consistent about their observance of Biblical restrictions and prohibitions, then they must also preach and practice abstinence from many other commonplace activities. With a few exceptions, most people are not willing to apply the morality of the Bible to their lives today. It’s more than hypocritical to demand that others do.
Perhaps you would do better to follow 2 Timothy 2:23 – Have nothing to do with stupid and senseless controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kindly to everyone.
no on 8 is for people who have no hearts nor souls. Grow up hippies, the 60s are over. The 60s have brought us out of control drug abuse which has led to violence, theft, death and the list goes on and on. The 60s also have made thousands of broken homes and people sleeping around till they catch an std or two. Liberals have been brain washed by crimanal, 60s throwbacks that have been stuck in a drug overload haze. YES on 8 is not hate and it is flat out evil to compare the gay agenda to the civil rights african americans fought for. Save our society and vote yes on 8!!!!!!!
there is very deep issue here at hand in terms of marriage. This problem will in no way be solved in this election. The door for conflict has been blown wide open, and the issue will go on to weig more important things in our country.
We must truly look at the responsibilities of the state, and its need to promote the well being of it’s systems ability to provide freedoms and liberties for its constituents and to avoid creating inconsistencies for them that leads to moral dilemnas.
If we are to be true liberterians, and propose a state of anarchy, we must therefore not ask the state to consider our contracts, agreements, rhetoric etc. in its decision making process. For example, absolutely free trade and economy. However, because we request help (Welfare, police, defence, social security), recognition (race, profession, sexual orientation, business, sexual orientation, single or married), and action (money, punishments, reimbursements, domicile, visitation rights) from the system, and beg often for its interference for its constituents, we therefore grant it a power. And this is it: discernment.
It must have the power to categorize. Who is poor, guilty, friend, enemy, retirement aged, hispanic, white, black, architect, school teacher, lawyer, president, soldier, pilot, gay, straight, neither, both, single, married, owed to, owes, guilty, not guilty, afflicted, afflicting, is in georgia, is in texas, is in california, related, unrelated, etc. This is key to our system of law. We give it this power because of the complexity it has due to our requests of it. No one is exempt in this request by virtue of living here. Therefore, we cannot claim infinite equality from the law.
This is fine. It’s ok. Anyone against it or that says it is not true is simply not looking hard enough.
Proposition 8 proponents, and anyone who comes against it, are fighting over a power of discernment of the law, and that is the relational status that the law categorizes two people as “marriage”. The category has already existed for a long time, and the law has helped, recognized, and acted on this category. And therefore it has interfered. Once again this is ok. Because we expect this of the government. And if we do not consider this fair, than that person does not belong here, and probably not in any other government.
They are absolute anarchists.
Now, this is the danger that our modern day is putting before our government: regulating on popular basis what the different categories are, and furthermore, what their individual responsibilities, benefits, demerits, restrictions and other qualities are.
So, the marriage contract, homosexual relationships, heterosexual relationships, polygamist relationships, incest relationships, and others are all recognized by the law and assigned a status, legal or illegal. This too is ok. They are each individual categories. However, the marriage contract is a far more formal category. The real differences between the different relationships are all implied by the different titles we give them, however the differences occur in reality. They are obvious. And no one can deny them. Any straight person who would say that their relationship is the same as that as any other relationship, gay or plural and so on, and believes it, is in serious trouble.
Now, this is the problem of not supporting a measure such as prop 8. You force the law to take two VERY different relationships, with very REAL differences, make it dishonor those differences, and force them into a category that will provide the EXACT same qualities to both relationships. We do not need the law to do this, because it is already done. It’s called a union.
Furthermore, we are forcing the law to take a category, called a contract, and force it into one of our most fundamental categories: a Right. We are confusing it with a real right: the right to hold a contract. Therefore, we remove a serious right: the right to exclusivity in any contract. And we will take it to the supreme court to do this.
All in the name of equality. This is perhaps the biggest challenges this country will face. Are we going to force the government to hand over its power of discernment to our will and whim. And then, force it to close its eyes to real differences because of the word of the day, Tolerance and Equality, in this case, and then make it act irrelevant of those differences.
The psychological impact that this will have on the future of this nation is unknown and could not be calculated. Because we will begin the eroding of value and difference for the law, we may affect the very nature of this culture in the future. And in no good way, because we may begin to affect the categories of the general culture and social structure because of its interdependence of with government in a negative manner, for example the many court cases already being held as well as their rulings show this. This is not a direct attack human rights and decency, and neither are people calculating to do this great harm to our nation. It is simply our inability to see past the real issues, and handle them as required.
That there are ways to protect different groups from discrimination and that we can, with the law, is true. And we should definitely have them in play. But granting the formal homosexual union the same as the formal heterosexual union is not the way. This will unnecessarily inhibit the rights of heterosexual union.
We should avoid this precedent at all costs. Because it is a precedent for lying at the fundamental levels of the government, not just at decision making and bureaucratic levels.
Forget the problems for the two groups for and against gay marriage, we are entering a discussion of this nation’s government’s future, it’s quality, and possible eventual demise.
to say the least, picture ralph wiggum getting thrown through a glass window and saying: “I’m a brick”
GUESS YOU SUCK BECAUSE PROP EIGHT WAS PASSED BY THE ETHICAL AND NON-TRASHY PEOPLE OF THIS STATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GAY PROMISCUOUS PEOPLE WHO DON’T EVEN KEEP THEIR PARTNERS FOR MORE THAN A FEW SECONDS CAN GO LOWER THE MORAL STANDARD OF SOME OTHER COUNTRY!!!!!!! WE’RE NOT GOING TO BECOME LIKE THE ROMAN EMPIRE WHICH FELL BECAUSE OF DISGUSTING, DEPRAVED, PERVERTED PEOPLE LIKE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!
Arnold….did you not notice that the precincts reporting so far are the most conservative in the state and the absentees?
Also, Rome fell because they let the rednecks in and THEN let them run the country. The ones with no respect for human beings or for reason; the barbarians at the gate.
Just when you think you couldn’t love BackpackingDad any more…
lol @belinda and a w00t for @backpacking dad
I’m ashamed of my state. I thought we were better than this. Unfortunately, it turns out that more than half of my fellow Californians are really ignorant bigots. Needless to say, I’m stunned.
Please, those of you who voted to deny basic protections to our neighbors and fellow citizens–make sure you have the balls to announce this proudly at every opportunity. Frankly, I’d rather not associate with that kind of intolerance, and I’d really like to know who you are.
Cowards.
You rock, QoS. Myself, my heterosexual boyfriend of many years, his family and my family all voted NO on 8.
The percentage points are narrowing but it looks like we will need a legal challenge. I am glad that the numbers are much more evenly split than the last time CA voted on this.
It seems like voter turnout was disturbingly low in some key places…
Civil rights will prevail in the end.
Keep on keepin’ on!
Wow. First thing I’ve read this morning Erin. What a way to wake up.
Nothing like the Jasons and Glenos of the world to get my blood pressure up.
I just wanted to thank you Erin, for writing what I so often have thought myself, only you say it more eloquently than I ever could.
Some disclaimers before I get to my point:
1) I’m not religious and also despise “bigotry in the name of Jesus”
2) I’m not a homophobe and believe in equal rights for everyone
3) I am a heterosexual married man
The fundamental problem as I see it, and the reason why I voted Yes on 8, is that heterosexual marriage needs to be modified to accomodate homosexual marriage. I don’t want heterosexual marriage modified. I want “bride and groom” on marriage certificates, not “Person A and Person B” as I have seen it recently with people I know. Although I think homosexuals deserve equal rights, as far as I understand, they already have it to the extent that California can provide it under domestic partnership!
It’s not the case that 55 percent of the state is “hateful religious bigots.” If that were honestly the case, then homosexuals would not have equal rights under the law, as they do now with domestic partnerships. If you don’t like domestic partnerships and it doesn’t sound “romantic” enough for you, that’s fine, come up with something new that is entirely yours… but please, leave heterosexual marriage as-is. I am a groom and a husband, not “Person A.”
I guess I don’t understand why the homosexual community would want to hijack a heterosexual tradition anyway, when the opportunity to define their own traditions is ready and available. If you want to make history, be strong in your community and invent something new!
I just stumbled across your blog while googling prop 8 and so glad I did. You are dead right. This isn’t about religion, its about basic civil rights. Shame on those who want to deny our brothers and sisters equal rights. I will be linking up to your blog from mine shortly. I also completely agree with your statement on toleration: “Forced toleration can suck sometimes. But hey, I have to tolerate you, so it works both ways.” If we have to tolerate their hate and bigotry, I think they should have to “tolerate” seeing a gay couple being happy together. Bigotry is bigotry no matter how they try to defend it.
I will be checking your blog regularly. Keep up the great blogging.
This is an answer to BK. I really want to answer Arnold, but I will not stoop to his level.
This is why we want marriage.
Civil unions and domestic partnerships carry different legal status apart from a marriage.
When one is legally married, they have the right to file a joint tax return, allowing for a better tax advantage.
If their spouse is from another country, they can sponsor them and help them become a United States Citizen.
A couple’s marriage is recognized in all fifty states and probably worldwide, whereas a civil union or domestic partnership is not. In other words if you are in a civil union and travel to another state, they don’t have to accept your rights and can do what they want.
In the unhappy event that a relationship were to break up, a married couple has the right to divorce, allowing for a mostly amicable distribution of property and assets. A civil union or Domestic Partnership does not allow for this.
The General Accounting Office released a list in 1997 of over one thousand benefits availiable to heterosexual married couples, including federal benefits, veterens benefits, FMLA, Social Security, and so on. Any partnership, even if they are a heterosexual couple, cannot share those benefits unless they are married.
There are some work arounds that gay or hetero couples can do, like medical power of attorney, or durable power of attorney, but these require the services of a lawyer, and court fees. A marriage license runs short of $100.00 making it a much more sane and affordable option.
The United States Constitution guarantees equality for all. Which means that allowing gay marriage to happen is the easiest, cheapest, and quickest way to solve that problem.
As far as the marriage certificate and “Person A” business; the clerk of courts office could simply print a certificate for hetero couples that can state “Man and Wife, and obviously “Groom and Groom or “Wife and Wife” for the gay couples. This can easily be done through the use of templates in say, MS Publisher.
We do not want to “hijack marriage”. We simply want the inherit right to equality. I have already proven to you that Domestic Partnerships or Civil Unions are not equal. They are “Seperate but Equal”, which if my faded memory serves right, was struck down in Brown Vs. Board of Education, some 50 years ago.
Mr. BK I offer to you a sensible reason why we want marriage. You can use that as you wish. Keep in mind though, that we are only asking for what should already be ours as United States Citizens.
For the record, In Florida, Proposition 2 was defeated as well. I spoke to my ex father-in-law about it, since he was once in a domestic partnership, and he says that all the retirees in Central Florida can’t wait to sue if their rights as domestic partners are infringed.
Oh and Florida’s Prop. 8, which meant the ability of counties to raise funds for community colleges was struck down too. I just hope I get my Sallie Mae loans now. *sigh*
This is not the end guys. Be strong. We can fight again.
Cathy
This is freaking ridiculous. I cannot believe that you actually believe that failing to recognize that homosexuality is “normal” is bigotry!
By definition:
bigot:
a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.
By this definition, I think homosexuals are bigots. Yeah, that’s right. I THINK HOMOSEXUALS ARE BIGOTS. I am not intolerant of your beliefs. I don’t go out & try to force my beliefs on you, or try to validate the fact that I am straight to you with a bunch of accusations about you being a “hater”, or a “nazi”. You need to realize that we do not share your views, accept it & move on. Quit trying to get us to join you in your poor, sad, miserable existence & quit trying to pass ridiculous laws that would force your screwed up morals on us. PROPOSITION 8 PASSED. Get over it. If you don’t like the fact that the majority of Americans are not gay & do not agree with you, then leave. Go find an island somewhere & breed yourselves out of existence.
Oh, & another thing. I seriously doubt that both sides are being accurately represented on a blog where every post has to go through a screening by a homosexually-biased individual. Most likely, this post will not make it to the blog.
i would like to say, that all the gays and lesbians are surely showing they’re true colors…you whining babys!!! how can you even get upset over the peoples vote? this is america and we have the right to vote and what we say as a people goes…now for the part that really has me peaved, all these gay and lesbians are now protesting, and creating some violence, are you serious, and you want the same rights as hetros yet youll get upset at them, when they vote for what they believe…i mean come on guys, we just voted in a black president of the united states of america, remember i said black, and do you see rioting on the streets, or any marching protests??? no, we as a country except what we vote for, now its up to you, that have been voted down, for something, that totaly goes against morals, and bible teachings, to go home, and just go on living…so what if you cant get married, you all are going to live together, and go to work, and do your daily things no matter what…so get off of us americans who feel its not right to make a gay marriage a law…i will leave you with this one remark…ready??? SODOM and GOMORRAH!!!
So it’s bigotry when you don’t like the rules, eh queenie? Gonna stomp all over the sandbox in your size 14 Timberlands when the game goes south on you.?
Well well well.
Fact is, we won. You lost. Your guys had more money, more star power, more signs, more water bottles, more everything.
But when the rubber hit the road, you bit the big one. You bought the fucking farm. You wimped out. You looked like the clueless, aimless cunt you’ve always been.
And all you can do now is cry in your granola and threaten to sue.
We’re shaking in our loafers.
We look at it this way. All you got is your pointy little head and your disbelief, which will get you a one-way ride on the Metro on a good day. We got God. We kick ass. You don’t.
Poor bitch. I pity you. I really do.
You know, it doesn’t bother me much when Christians call homosexuality a sin, because I am not a Christian and do not believe in “sin”. But I do know some gay Christians that are bothered by it.
However, I do get really pissed off when religious zealots fail to understand that we are supposed to have separation of church and state, so there should not be any means by which religious types can take their religious mantras and turn them into law.
If you don’t want to offer gay marriage as an option in your closed-minded churchy community, that is fine with me. But the church should not be able to decide who the STATE allows to get married and not.
Erin, you and mostly don’t agree on politics, my being a Libertarian-minded independent and all. However, I think you correctly pointed out one of the many failings in your hero President-elect’s platform, where he sold out a good percentage of the electorate, by not supporting equal rights for equal people.
I am not sure why so many people are so afraid of marriage being for anybody, as far as the State is concerned, it is a contract and nothing more. The “God” element should be left in God’s house, (the church), not the State house.
Obama was a weasel for caving on this issue, however, I respect you more that you didn’t. Don’t let the Gratiot cruising rednecks get you down!
Dale Andersen,
Wow!
Does God inspire your writing?
So impressive… just what Jesus would say.
We all pity you.
That simple.
Erin, your commenters never fail to disappoint. A “Christian” calls you a c*nt, yet claims God is on his side? If those are the folks God really wants in heaven, I’ll happily head the other way.
There is absolutely, positively no valid reasons to support legislation that crushes dreams and denies people the right to be treated equally. NONE. Anyone who tries to come up with one is nothing but a homophobe.
It’s fascinating watching people in this thread trying to defend bigotry in any sort of logical way. Haven’t seen it yet. But maybe I’m just distracted by the dizzying display of illiteracy.
What boggles me is the fear that is will spoil ‘straight’ marriages…er..how?
I think the whole concept of ‘sanctity of marriage’ went out the window the moment divorce was invented.
And people forget over and over the rights and privileges that a LEGAL marriage allows a couple…simple things like being allowed to be by their side in hospital, to speak for their partners, etc…
If the gay community want their unions to be legal..why not? Then let them pay for expensive divorces too!
Why does this affect ANYONE else except the people getting married.????
And being that I live where it is legal…even my gay friends say once the novelty wore off….it ain’t like they are all getting hitched for fun…but they love the choice..
choice that should be for everyone.
I was a proud life-long Florida resident, and was even prouder when we turned a beautiful shade of blue for Obama.
But when Prop 2 passed, I became disheartened and disgusted at the thought that most of my neighbors are bigots.
I posted this comment on another blog earlier today, and it feels appropriate here, too:
The church has no right to limit rights given in the Constitution.
Marriage can be both a legal recognition of property and rights to the other person, and, if so chosen, a recognition by the couple’s religion as a spiritual union. By putting into the Constitution the ‘moral’ restrictions represented by some citizens, they limit the rights so given in the underlying theme of the Constitution.
I, too, would like to hear a non-religious reason for Prop 2 (FL) and Prop 8 (CA) and the other limiting props in other states.
ENOUGH! ENOUGH ALREADY! The problem lies is in distinguishing between you and me, us and them, we and they. Scrolling through these comments I see a lot of finger pointing, things like “you people.” Resonates of “That guy” during the debates.
Here’s the deal folks. Who gives a flying fuck if Obama is a Muslim (he’s not of course). Who cares if your neighbor is gay or Catholic or Protestant or a Buddhist or a Jew? The root of evil is the belief that ‘I rule, you don’t. I make the laws, you don’t. It’s my god, not yours’.
Guess what people? We’re all made up of the same things -cells and tissues and joints and blood. Sure our genetic codes differentiate us but at the end of the day, we come into this world alone and we go out alone. And you better believe that what you do while you’re here is going to come back in spades.So stop spewing the hatred and figure pointing and me me me crap and get a fucking life. I could care less if two cats married, two men married, two women married, whatever. The sanctity of marriage lies in respect and commitment. And if you choose to make that official so that you can share in the good, the bad and the ugly, what right does ANYONE have to tell you that you’re wrong. The bible folks, was written by a bunch of old men. It’s filled with stories. If you choose to believe those stories, well good for you. If you want to believe that Jesus is your savior, well. so be it. If you want to believe that Allah is going to save you, good for you.. But please please stop believing that you are right and “them”is wrong becuase you have god behind you. Your god would be apalled at your sinful, childish behavior.
I like gays, but I don’t like what they stand for.
That’s what your comments sound like. A bunch of contradictory bullshit.
Bless the gays, the straights, the religious, the non-religious and the lot. Can’t we all just get along?.
Erin – I salute your spew because I believe that the decision to marry is between those two people who decide to do it. Folks who say that they don’t like to support tax dollars going towards gay marraige. Well, guess what? I don’t like my tax dollars going towards the Iraq war or justifying imperialism. But such is life.
Neighbor, I will always respect your decisons, even if I don’t like them. It’s called respect.
One more thing. The poster who brought up 9-11? It’s another example of using something to further your own agenda. Just like prop 8 is being used, so was 9-11 used by the neocons and other ignorants.
I was THERE. I lived 20 blocks away at the time. My neighborhood was in lockdown. I lost friends. I have friends who lost friends. I smelled death for a month afterwards. And like all New Yorkers, we didn’t want to bomb the shit out of another country; we wanted to unite and come together and heal.
So please, stop making excuses for your fear. Just like 9-11, prop 8 is one big excuse for your fear.
I love that Dale thinks the Prop 8 people were the underdogs. And that he (a) thinks of it as a game/sport and (b) thinks it’s unsportsmanlike to call for an instant replay review by the refs and (c) thinks that the refs who reviewed the play last time aren’t going to make side with the same team as last time.
There’s no comedy like the big fat guy falling on his face while bragging about how coordinated he is.
Reading through these comments was fascinating. It saddens me to think that we live in a country where there are so many hateful people.
Homosexuality is not natural because it’s “less than 2%” of our population? First of all, that number is highly inaccurate. Second of all, just because something is “only 2%” does not make it unnatural. Only 1% of the United States population is Native American. Maybe we should take away all of their rights, too? About 1% of babies born in the united states do not have distinguishable genitalia, so I guess they should be treated as “freaks” and not be allowed to get married, too?
What happened to all men are created equal? Men, women, gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered, black, white, hispanic, old, young, disabled, ugly, fat, mentally ill…we are ALL equal. Everyone deserves to live the life they want to live, whether or not you think they are “perfect.” No one is perfect. NO ONE fits into ALL “morals.” Let people be people. Let people decide what they want, how they want it, and don’t take away their ability to have it.
“We have God”
WTF.
I don’t want that God in my life, you can have that God. My God loves his children, loves who they love, loves their children. My God created his children and their loves and their children. Your God was created in a church full of bigots and out of hate. Real nice thing to pass on there, real nice.
I just feel so sad that Proposition 8 passed. I just hope that someday, just like we do when we look at the events of this Nation’s past, our children will look at these events and then look at us and say “what were you thinking!”. We are in the XXI century people!! We can’t go forward if we keep thinking that other human beings deserve less rights than others for a genetic reason, being sex, color or sexual orientation.
And please, stop hiding behind the religion, because I refuse to believe, that if is there a God out there, will inspire hate (which is what seems to be the only feeling that comes out of people like Dale)
You really think that homosexuality is genetic? You really think that homosexuality is an inborn trait? Please. The simple fact that you were BORN proves that is not true. Nature does not lie, & nature made it impossible for a couple of the same sex to breed. Why? Because it is unnatural, & things that are unnatural are kept out of the gene pool by default. Please don’t plaster us with your inconsistent views of biology. It just doesn’t work that way.
Please sign the Petition to re-open Proposition 8. The proposition IS a form of sanctioned discrimination and it IS unconstitutional.
You nut jobs are great! The majority have spoken (and spoken loud) but the minority will kick and scream until they get there way like a bunch of spoiled children.
Who the hells Jason and why did I post under his name ??
looks ok now Rick –
And Dale, your comment is staying up (despite the really classy name-calling) as a shining example of asshattery.
Terrific. It looks like the religious fuckers are looking to nullify all previous same sex marriages as well.
http://www.savecalifornia.com/getpluggedin/news_details.php?newsid=9924
Note this line: “Now the false marriages done this summer must be declared null and void”
Real fucking nice.
I knew I loved you for more than one reason. 🙂
I think that we as a community, ought to get more involved in politics, so that we can help change any other effort to legislate hate into California, Florida, or the nation’s laws.
We should also get involved locally with the community at large, just to show those that hate, that we choose not to, and will help our communities in need.
Also we should be thankful for those that are not gay, but are willing to lend their voice to our cause, such as the gracious lady that has given us her blogspace.
And finally, we should embrace our gay friendly churches, and reach out to other churches to show them that we do indeed have morals and character.
This will help convince others that are straight, but undecided, that we are not evil.
Until we extend an olive branch and work diligently to help ourselves instead of marching angrily and engaging in name calling and such, we will never win the hearts and minds of those that would probably vote in our favor when the next time comes around.
And the next time will come around. We will keep fighting for this cause, since it is noble and just.
Just my $0.02 worth, although after taxes maybe $0.002.
God Bless,
Cathy
First of all, Cathy (May I call you Cathy? Thank you), you need to stop calling us haters. We don’t like it. Keep it up and we’ll keep stepping on your toes and getting in your face just to remind you we’re here and we’re not going away.
The problem with Queen of Spain is, she’s got her world divided into the good and the bad. There’s no middle ground. Look at her rant. She’s got her nice furry little pets who do everything her way and play by her rules. And then there’re the wild animals who dig up her garden and crap on her lawn. That’s her world. So who’s the hater there?
You need to make room for us. A lot of room. Remember, we outnumber you on this issue. Three votes in three states prove it. Please don’t dismiss Florida and Arizona as backwaters. They are the two fastest-growing states in the union, percentage-wise..
Now back to us. Not only are we not going away, we’re increasing in numbers. Because we breed. While you abort.
Deal.
http://tiny.cc/queenofspainrant91
Dale Anderson:
In one sentence you say this: “you need to stop calling us haters. We don’t like it.” and at the end of your post you say this: “Because we breed. While you abort.”
And you wonder why you’re called a hater? Okay, I won’t call you a hater. Just intellectually dishonest and spewing unAmerican rhetoric. But you’re not a hater, nope.
What you breed? Hate. Think on it.
Dale, you need to make room for the rest of us. That you can use lies and distortions to fool enough people to vote for bigotry doesn’t mean you’re right. It doesn’t mean you outnumber people who value inclusion, and it doesn’t mean that you will prevail.
Winning a battle isn’t the same as winning the war.
I might be ignorant on the full spectrum of the subject, but I’m as Christian as it gets and I voted NO on 8. So, please do not assume all religious people are haters, bigots, etc., and please dont generalize. It only makes the same hate you’re saying shouldn’t exist against one group (gays) increase against another (religion). I don’t think it’s the answer. Tollerance isn’t a sword you get to use but then not practice yourself. I understand people’s anger and rage, but violent force won’t change anything. I think the gay community needs a solid, sane and centered speaker – it’s own Ghandi, or Martin Luther King. I think that there needs to be strong stance on the bible against bible people – God doesn’t judge sin by some kind of number system making it okay to lie but then not okay to be gay. And third, there is a lot of ignorance and confusion – educate people. Be the change you want to see in the world, period.
Just my .2.
Patricia says: “Be the change you want to see in the world, period.”
You’re absolutely right.
I was gonna let him go, but no…..
First of all, Cathy (May I call you Cathy? Thank you), you need to stop calling us haters.
I looked at every post I have made here, and never have I called anyone a hater. The closest I came was when I called for my community to show those that hate that we will not. The best way to shut down a bully is to not react to them.
We don’t like it. Keep it up and we’ll keep stepping on your toes and getting in your face just to remind you we’re here and we’re not going away.
Oooh a threat! *Yawn* Do your best bully boi, I don’t give a flying f—iretruck. I am happy with myself, and I think that despite all my physical limitations, I am great! So exit stage left with that.
The problem with Queen of Spain is, she’s got her world divided into the good and the bad. There’s no middle ground. Look at her rant. She’s got her nice furry little pets who do everything her way and play by her rules. And then there’re the wild animals who dig up her garden and crap on her lawn. That’s her world. So who’s the hater there?
And that must infuriate you that there is not a “posse” following you, waiting with baited breath for you to whip up some snappy repartee` right?
I do not need a posse. I have peace with myself.
You need to make room for us. A lot of room. Remember, we outnumber you on this issue.
It is not a matter of you “outnumbering” us. It is a matter of people that are uneducated, or more properly mis-educated. But Guess what, the flats start to fly, and the fill lights go on to expose the shadows, Mr. Anderson, you will find that the hate diminishes with it.
Please don’t dismiss Florida and Arizona as backwaters. They are the two fastest-growing states in the union, percentage-wise..
Hey, don’t dis my state man….. Sad news Mr. Playwright. According to Variety, no Boffo B.O. for you. My Governer committed “political suicide” before this election by pissing off a major demographic… The homeowner. So now I predict that Florida will turn a shade of deeper blue when it’s time to elect him out. My taxes went up even though my property values went down. (probably due to the two McMansions that have sprung up on my street. Or the two houses that were foreclosed on on my block alone.)
Come to think about it, most people normally don’t give gays a flying thought. They are more obssesed with where their money is going.
I can’t speak for Arizona, but when the time comes, I’ll speak for them.
Now back to us. Not only are we not going away, we’re increasing in numbers. Because we breed. While you abort.
I’ll have to tell my girlfriend’s three kids that. I guess she didn’t read the script. Gay people have every right to bear children. And for the record, Mr. Anderson, every person that I know that has had an abortion, and some more than one, is a card carrying heterosexual. I think you need to re-write that out of your final draft.
I never aborted. I never had the opportunity to. And at shy of 7 billion hungry mouths to feed, I think that maybe we need a little less breeding, ya think?
Deal. I’ll take no deal, thank you.
I will not be dealt a hand of hate. I’ll throw the cards to the floor and walk right out.
Peace, love and Kitties!
Cathy
lol. Peace, Love and Kitties!!!!!!